Class Balance Discussions

chrisoname2000

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Staff member
May 3, 2020
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Hello guys, I've created this space as way to accumulate concerns and suggestions regarding class balancing.

I feel Discord may not be as concise or helpful to provide us with a good and healthy environment in which people can actually read a well argument or point of view of what they think should be a class balance.

This DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED or THAT IT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED IN THE FUTURE.

This is a thread I've created so that when GMs are looking for new ideas, new updates and their muse is on fire, they can come back here, read discussions from veteran and new players about their experiences with classes around the game.

These are the guidelines to follow:

Statements will be:
1. What class are you?
2. How long have you been playing PO or any other similar game related to it?
3. [Argument]



Replies will be:
1. [Argument tagging the person you're replying to]




EXAMPLE:

Statement:
Voyager, playing since 2009.

"I think Champions need an upgrade on lv45 maps because blah blah blah blah and i need to blah to be able to blah."

Reply from person in community:

"@Guy1 I think Champions are vulnerable in low level mazes, but their equipment make blah blah for it and with a blah blah they might be able to kill blah blah because their growth is much stronger than any class at their level blah blah"

Any comment: flaming, disrespecting other players, just replying "hahahaha noob gem up" will be deleted. No exception. This is a real discussion about what the community thinks about balance throughout the years of playing this game and what is their experience.

DO NOT TRY TO TROLL IN THIS THREAD.
 
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Danny(Mamba)

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May 28, 2020
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Statement:

Im old Sharpshooter player since 2010?

I think all classes should be balanced but I will only talk about the class that I have played the most SS, The SS has 2 ways to play with bow or gun, the bow game is to kill fast and run the gun game is to shoot and seal, the problem in both ways of use is 3 points that encompass both ways of use:

1-The SS when moaning gloves and gun, does not have enough space to place dual heart of BD, unlike the other classes.

2-The belief is that the SS achieves damage that the other classes don't because its damage growth x ACC is high but the truth is that a max gemed crusader has the same damage as a max gemed SS (I say this with bases and I have proof of this).

3 - Negative % in their weapons and does not have enough passive skills to balance this out, the champ have negative % too "the negative % its not a balance its a nerf"

I think all classes have something that makes them stand out but I think there is one class that has a balance of many things good defense, the possibility of placing dual heart of BD without sacrificing anything, passive skills for attack speed, for dodge, a skill that can be considered the most powerful seal of the game "back stun" you are not able to move just wait for your death, Besides that, he becomes invisible and as if that wasn't enough, he is capable of killing classes with a lot of defense with just one skill, I am not talking about the crusader with the intention of being a nerf, it is with the intention that the other classes have the opportunity to shine in the same way.

I'm in love with this game and my intention is to make it infinite, but unfortunately many people find a class umbalance and leave the game because of this situación.
 
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Slayer

New member
May 28, 2020
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Hello, i recentrly discovered this server, anyways, i've player top1 and top2 as a voyager since 2008 and i always thought that would be great that mobs(or just the bosses) take a reduced at half health and an increase on PR or def, just because the DPS of the voyagers. it wont affect directly to other clases.
And the fact that the unseal 35+ for voys is still the same as top1 made me feel a little dissapointed, all the equips really sucks on the class bc their stats are completely usseless, just compare the SM armor unseal, that +%hp is insane and make the sm real strong in the early lvs, with a change like that it would be viable to build spr voy.
 
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xKados

New member
May 16, 2020
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Right now playing as a Cleric, but I've always been a Crusader since TOP, probably have played for over 3 years and just found Pirates Games Online two weeks ago and I absolutely love to be back.

I think all classes are balanced accordingly, but the main issue is what players demand from the game itself. If the main game and mazes were played in the sea, Voyagers would be the preferred class. If the game was oriented to surviving and whenever you died, you had to start all over again, probably Champions would be the most elected class.

I just returned to the game, and I have the feeling the game is positioned to be played as a Crusader. I just started and I really don't know what people are looking from it, but most of the top players dedicate their time to CA I believe. Maybe GMs should try to promote other kind of quests and mazes to look for an equilibrium between classes. It feels like it's a very individual game, and party/guilds aren't needed to complete team quests. That would give Champions and SM a very important role for instance.

In any case, this is just an opinion as a noob returning player, without any objective in the game rather than enjoying one of the games I've played and enjoyed the most in the past :)
 

xXseddikXx

New member
Jun 6, 2020
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I've been playing as a crus for less than 3 years , i've done many mazes and pk events

I consider that crusaders are pretty much useless in massive pk event. Once you stun (with 30s cooldown) or you slash , that's it. Just go hide behind your team voyagers while they AoE hit and wait until your slash recovers.
The class it self doesn't have a way to increase movement speed even tho it's a melee class. A sharpshooter or any other class that has even the same movement speed as yours while kite you to death cuz you will only be able to slash , even stun needs a melee cast.

On the other side , stealth has a really long duration for a very low sp consumption , being this the only survavility skill crus really has , i don't see any wrong thing with it.
Being this said , reducing slash cooldown or getting an AoE skill would improve crus gameplay in massive Pk events instead of it being a slash-run gameplay even tho it's a melee class.
 

Ruditox

New member
Jun 6, 2020
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Hi, I'm Ruditox, Sharpshooter Player on DarkSwamp Magical Paradise server.

As a player of this class, where it is supposed to be a DPS CLASS, I should have more potential to do damage per second, I am almost full gemmed in terms of basic statistics, that is, Acc-Agi, my gloves are +15 and my boots +13, only missing +10 Agi to complete the build, and still I feel that a full ACC Sharshooter can hit hard is fine, but skill points to take advantage of the passives, or you use the gun to seal but you do not take advantage of your MAX, because you are not able to give 1 basic in MVM, according to, that the pistol sharpshooter does not have an ability that I do damage as a Slash, Dual Shoot, Bolt, Conch, LightBolt, it is to seal and run, where it is supposed that the DPS should to carry in the team ...

I went a while ago Full agility, and with the intention of being a clear "farmer" vs the Mobs, this "build" shines too much, "you farm" like a God, but when you have to do PK, you don't do anything either, because the users who use "CON" you hit him little.

It is understood that this is a class where its potential is at high levels due to the skill points and statistics that are essential, but in DS and FC, the truth is not useful, it is useful if you are FULL CON, but why create a full DPS? with, if that is not your priority or your mission.

My suggestions are as follows: clearly each one is for testing and testing on the test server.

Movement Speed: I suggest moving speed potions like W8 and Skating are removed from the game, these potions are corrupt, it makes any class have the same movement speed as an SS, directly making a NERF to the only defense of the SS "running", and Dark Swamp being such a closed map, it is not easy to escape, even having all the movement speed objects that an SS can have: Neck lv50 110%, Tittle 110%, Mount, Unseal 55 Armor 110 %, Ca Paw 110% and unseal Gloves 110%, and buff lv 10, Windwalk lv10.

Equips:
Gloves Unseal 55:
Increase the ACC of Gloves 55 unsealed gloves, to be able to use them and take advantage of the movement speed they give you, add attack speed +10, +15 or +20 (like the Apollo Claw).

Armor: Increase the base Life that this gives you to be able to take advantage of the movement speed that it gives you.

Gun: The unsealed 45-55-65 pistols have a negative attack speed penalty, if I know, it is something original from the game, but suppose the SS is aimed at building agility? but where do you get the damage, but if you do full ACC? where it takes attack speed and you can do damage per second.
I suggest: Remove the penalty, or put attack speed, the speed that is not gaining for being High Level, in its base statistics.

Basic Atacks:
The range to give the basic attacks and blows are very short for the Boss (it was nerfed in this Server) and in MVM they are useless, you are very vulnerable to do the damage you should do, you are still within the reach of the BOLTS and Slash .

Rousing:
-Dramatically increase attack speed, but for a short time
-Place: 20% attack speed at maximum level.
-Place: It can be a passive and / or an active attack speed.

Range Mastery:
-Increase to: 10% attack at maximum level

Dual Shoot
-Reduce cooldowns of this ability to 4 seconds, (since you are not able to give basic attacks, at least make you hit more often with your ability).
other options are:
Dual Shoot at max level 490% "lv1 220% and 30% per skill level"

Enfeeble
-Reduce Cooldown to 10 Seconds.

For Full Agility Builds: (BOW) On-HIT-Builds

Venon Arrow: Switch to passive skill and that for each hit it damages 100-500 per hit at level 1-10, and leaves a damage on time of 4 seconds of a poison of 50-250 (Half of the atack basic)

Frozen Arrow: Change the skill to passive to slow down the enemy with basic attacks, and have a 30% chance of reducing movement speed: Lv1 20% - Lv10 50%.

For Full Agility Builds: (GUN) On-HIT-Builds

Magma Bullet:
The active leave it like this, add a passive that for each hit it damages: 100-500 per hit at level 1-10, and leave damage over 4 seconds time from a hell of 50-250 (half of what the basic attack does)

HeadShoot: Because the GUN-SS does not have a ONE SHOOT skill: Add a passive that has a 10-20% chance of basic attacks firing a headshot that causes the same effect as activating it on 5-10 % of the enemy's current life.
 
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Arrow

New member
Jun 11, 2020
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Playing Sharpshooter since 2012


Sharpshooter is only good at low level and new server.
When server become old, SS become useless and just good for sealing bd or farming mc

Gun SS = Just for Seal, yet aspd and damage is lowered compare to DPS like Cruz, Seals of SM is better than SS Seal plus blot of SM can damage a Champ, unlike SS.

Bow SS = In every server i played, the Dual shot is always sucks it should be Improve! Compare to Cruz Slash. Even SS has higher Max their dualshot is so Bad, compare to Slash of Cruz.

The Most Advantage of SS is their Movement Speed compare to other Class
But here in this server it, WINDWALK is like Nerfed because of a lot of item, like mounts, title, etc. give additional movement speed.

Suggestion for improvement:

Gun SS =
Make multiplier damage on Headshot to their ACC so it be usefull to damage players.

Bow SS = Improve Dualshot Damage by adding multiplier to their ACC to have better Dualshot

Windwalk Improvement: Max level gives 20%, i suggest make it 30% - 40% so you can give more advantage to SS as fast runner.

Make Rousing Passive skill: lv10 = +25 aspd

The Water Rock is very trash item, that can only be forge in glove, yet broken strike gem gives +2 also.

I suggest Water Rock should be forge in Hat
 
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Em em

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Jun 21, 2020
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I am Cruz Playing FC & DS since 2009

After reading above suggestion. I think the Rousing as Passive skill 12-16% aspd is good to Balance with HL Cruz Aspd.

This also will not affect in FC since they have limited skill point,
While in DS they can get 15% but they will lose some skill if they max Rousing,
like so there will be trade off the skill if they will max the Rousing or the Gun Seals or DualShot&Frozen or Windwalk.
In end in DS there will be trade off so it will be fine.

So the Passive Rousing skill 12-16% aspd can be good to balance in HL

with this DPS Cruz & SS can be balance

Yet Cruz still have higher Aspd than SS since they get more aspd on 2 swords.
then if SS use gun, they will just have normal aspd. in bow they get close to cruz aspd yet Cruz still has more aspd which enough to balance the game.
 
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Numb

New member
Jun 21, 2020
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Playing Cruz since top 1 because it has greater advantage and cool having 2 swords.

I tried playing SS once yet i switch back to Cruz specially playing on HL since I can really farm BD mobs more than SS cause we have a lot better aspd.

Somehow I agree to Em Em suggestion than other so favor so much boost in SS.
one boost can balance yet Cruz should be still have higher aspd since SS got Longer Range before we can stun or melee them they already hit us 2-3 hits. so this 15% aspd rousing is agreeable for me.

So SS like Alug and Martis won't cry about the new 80 aspd lot. and balance the game.
 

Ra_

New member
Jun 21, 2020
1
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3
1) Cruz
2) 2 years experience in po, played original and various ps but was trash
3)
class ideas

champs
-con poss champs should be breakable by dps, playing as or against a sponge isn't very fun and should be punished accordingly : )

cruz -backstun is kinda broken (many times my client shows a front stun and i get backstun effect or vice versa) the movement in this game doesn't work well with this feature imo maybe make it 8s/12s or make it give 16s if you stun from a stealthed state (its alright for PvE but the choas of PvP movement seem like there isn't much skill in getting a backstun unless you are soloing 1 or 2 guys-in which case the stealth stun idea would still be useful).

ss-water rock in helm seems more interesting than just making it a better broken strike for weapons

voy-tornado is a boring skill maybe make it into a knockback effect that does some damage, due to the inconsistent movement mentioned earlier a backtrack effect would probs be better but might be harder to impliment.

some other dumb stuff

-Decrease the time between throwing fb and effect being applied, i think the delay should be reduced as the general movement speed of a server rises, with rightful wings and skatings steadily becoming more prominent i feel its a good time for it.

-Bless out of negative effects, if you are under negative effects e.g. stun, seal, ms slow etc. bless or another item could remove the effects, would need a looong cooldown and some more thought into balancing (since this really nerfs sms) but could be interesting : )

-custom bind support/improve number keys - number keys are super inconsistent to use and its not fun to check if your typing in chat when you just wanna use a skill, maybe make it so you have to press enter/return to start typing or make it so holding alt/shift always uses skills/items on num keys.

-lotting isn't fun, make it 10x more expensive and 10x more likely to give buffs
 
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HL PKer

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Jun 21, 2020
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Hi there, I am being playing here Main SS class. I feel like we´re kind of nerfed cuz supossedly a maxed SS should hold higher max than a crusader but in this server Maxed SS vs Maxed Cruz same gems almost , they can hold similar or even higher Max than us SS. And now with the Attk speed Lot being nerfed, the Acc Con SS in high level can´t even DPS (which is the SS work , DPSing) attack so damn slow already. Hitting like at 200 atk speed lol.

The idea of Water Rock +4 Accuracy is good, but I mean it still wont be enough having what? +10 more extra accuracy because of this gem. Still holding same or lower max than a Crusader Zzzz...
SS Class Really needs a bit of a max buff or something else.

Supposedly maxed Accuracy SS should be destroying anything, but not true hahaha, Champs.
Champs here are trully overpowered, I mean even without BD Soul, with just Broken Cracked Lv5 + Lv4 Ug Colo, they are already Not killable, only by magics of course.

I mean lets say a High level max gemmed Cruz/SS vs Champ.
Cruz/SS holding like 6.1k + Max attk can't even break a Champ if they just change to Con Rings , and still stay STR mode and be un-killable. Meanwhile the champ can just 1 combo The other class easily , and full STR Mode.

This is just too OP, Champs really need a bit Debuff , they can destroy you, but you can't even Scratch them even at super High max attack damage. Champs with like 4.2k+ Max already can destroy any class easily in High Level.
 

grim

New member
Jun 22, 2020
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This will balance the Attack Speed of Cruz vs SS.
Since they nerf the aspd lot to 80 from 140.
This will not change any skills of SS
This will not nerf the Cruzaders
so this will balance the 2 DPS character in game the Sharpshooter and Cruzader
Cruz will still have highest aspd.


Make a secondary weapon for SS called Quiver.

Quiver:
Adds additional attack speed.
231

Note:
This cannot have gems because it be unfair to the game their max will be double.
This can be only used with Bow. it be unfair with Gun which have higher Max and Gun have - aspd.


FC Quiver for 399 Imps
Requirement level : 45
Gives additional attack speed bonus: 9%
230



DS Quiver for 799 Imps
Requirement level : 55
Gives addition attack speed bonus: 12%
232



DW Quiver for 1199 Imps
Requirement level : 75
Gives addition attack speed bonus:16%
233




Example stat: based on my friend HL lv90 Acc/Agi build + Acc pet
Base aspd = 271
with Buff = 312
with Buff and Quiver(16%) = 361
with Buff and Quiver(16%) and Aspd Lot (80)+ = 441 aspd
The 441 aspd is good for SS,
while Cruz will have around
700 aspd



This Bonus Attack Speed will improve the SS while not making it too Powerful.

***SS players also should spend on their Character Improvement that is why i was an item sold in Item Mall.
if they want get stronger they should spend!
 
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Reky

New member
Dec 30, 2019
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This will balance the Attack Speed of Cruz vs SS.
Since they nerf the aspd lot to 80 from 140.
This will not change any skills of SS
This will not nerf the Cruzaders
so this will balance the 2 DPS character in game the Sharpshooter and Cruzader
Cruz will still have highest aspd.


Make a secondary weapon for SS called Quiver.

Quiver:
Adds additional attack speed.
View attachment 231
Note:
This cannot have gems because it be unfair to the game their max will be double.
This can be only used with Bow. it be unfair with Gun which have higher Max and Gun have - aspd.


FC Quiver for 399 Imps
Requirement level : 45
Gives additional attack speed bonus: 9%
View attachment 230


DS Quiver for 799 Imps
Requirement level : 55
Gives addition attack speed bonus: 12%
View attachment 232


DW Quiver for 1199 Imps
Requirement level : 75
Gives addition attack speed bonus:16%
View attachment 233



Example stat: based on my friend HL lv90 Acc/Agi build + Acc pet
Base aspd = 271
with Buff = 312
with Buff and Quiver(16%) = 361
with Buff and Quiver(16%) and Aspd Lot (80)+ = 441 aspd
The 441 aspd is good for SS,
while Cruz will have around
700 aspd



This Bonus Attack Speed will improve the SS while not making it too Powerful.

***SS players also should spend on their Character Improvement that is why i was an item sold in Item Mall.
if they want get stronger they should spend!
1) Crusader, Champ, SM, SS
2) 12 years playing top games.
The answer to the idea
Nice work, however, 16% atk speed in a SS is way too op, SS can already fast shot any dps. (SS or crus) this would make it even easier. Also think 700 aspeed on crus is really not anymore possible with decent damage, due to lot restriction, and if gets somewhere closer to 650 is with berserk that wont last much, and SS would have it without using any skill and not having cd and you are not taking into account SS deal range damage...
Debate about SS and crus balance
SS could benefit from this, if SS was actually a fragile class like it was ages ago, but it's not anymore, so you are basically giving the only class with decent range mele and bulk, a deadly weapon. Max crus cant os max SS , but SS can destroy a crus or a SS briefly. I think, trying to compare crus or SS regarding aspeed is pointless, both classes must have differences, crus is supposed to have op aspeed thats why almost all their weapons have atk speed bonus, thats why theres a passive and active skill that gives aspeed and thats why theres that mechanic of slash bonus at 140 and 210 aspeed, aspeed for crus is like movspeed for SS, and should remain as unique feature.
My experience
I myself have SS and crus, both very high gemmed, and although is true that SS can seem slow in terms of dps, especially against magics, when you hit a SS or a crus you realize how good actually is. Crus is good taking down magics with the use of the stun, but it's really hard to fight against SS unless they are already stunned (note i say already, since the op mspeed makes it hard to even catch them, and none complains about mspeed fix?).
Balancing is always risky
Altering how classes behave, have a high impact on the meta, SS already got buffs in this server: got op hp and def bonuses out of con, they dont need double heart, making it cheaper, dual shot has increased damage in this server from rougly x3 hit to almost x4 and even its death torso has edited pr. So, even if i don't want to edit any class, SS would be one of the lasts to buff imo.
 
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Arrow

New member
Jun 11, 2020
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The problem is the SS can have different types of build and main. with pros and cons


DPS SS = ACC Agi Build

In this Build, Cruz max gemmed can 1 Slash a Acc Agi Build SS even with buffed you higher hp..
even DS Cruz Max Gemmed can 1 slash a Acc Agi Build HL SS max gemmed

>>Acc Agi Build w/ Gun = This Build is useless, Gun gives a lot -negative Attack speed. the max of gun is useless when you still hit slow even on Acc Agi, you attack speed here can only reach 200. and run slower than a bow type

>>Acc Agi Build w/ Bow = This build is Good Speed but the problem is the Max they have 500-700 damage lower than a Gun. They will have same damage of a 2 Agi Swords Cruz so the Dual Str Cruz Still have Higher Damage.



Tank Build SS = ACC Con

This Build they really Tanky and hard too kill but they become either just a Sealer / Dualshot Slow dps, when main bow can't even win on Cleric max gemmed or a SM max gemmed. Because their Attack Speed is Very Slow.


>> Acc Con Build w/ Gun = They run slow. They Literally Dependent on the Career slot to Gain attackspeed. but it was NERF to 80. so they are now Useless to be hit. they will hit 1 yet a cruz can hit them 8x already. then a Cleric/SM Can bolt them 2-3x, They are just good for seal tanker.. Which SM is Better.


>>> Acc Con Build w/ Bow = They Are just tank then Dualshot and run. They can't be still be called DPS. they have Low Max they have Low Attack Speed. they are just tank and runner. a dual shot can't even 1 ds a Cruz even on STR AGI Build. they still need to hit. yet they still Slow since they are Acc Con Build.





THE PROBLEM POINT OF VIEW OF CRUSADER FANATICS
- they don't see the trade off the SS Build, which stat they build or which weapon they use.
if you see the Trade off the buff on ss is really not that great or not usable on certain situation or build.



Suggestion:
So SS can Maximize so called Higher Max(if we use gun) is Lower the Negative Attack Speed on Gun. So Gun can be used as DPS, they should Lower or remove the Negative Attack Speed.

As can you see the Gun with negative attack speed in DS is very usefull as dps since the cardic gun 777 has no negative attack speed. in HL 95% use Bow as main cause the Gun is VERY SLOW even on Acc agi build. The Higher MAX is not getting be used because of this. its useless they hit very slow.


Lower the negative attack speed or remove it so GUN can be
useful as dps weapon
 
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Arrow

New member
Jun 11, 2020
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Gun gives Higher Max but the give -15% Negative Attack Speed with Acc Con build you will only reach 140-160 attack speed. That's ridiculously SLOW compare to a Cruz with 700 attack speed. Even on lv80 Upgraded weapon its -12% Negative attack Speed.
Suggestion: Make it base -10% Negative attack speed. and on lv80 Upgraded its -6% Negative attack spped.
So gun can be useful melee



Addition how so many useless skills unlike other Class 85-90% Useful.

Then Half of Skills Cannot be use when you using Different kind of Weapon.
Suggestion: Make Fire Gun Mastery can be used the effect even with Bow (So Bow user can benefit on high damage)
Make Fire Gun Master from 200 at lv10 make it 250 damage

Range Mastery is stupid ads only 20 damage! ( Server now have lv5 UG Colo lv3 BD Soul, DE Armors / Corp)
Suggestion: Make it at least 50 damage on lv10

RB Skills of SS is one of the USELESS the Cannon. (NO ONE USING)
Suggestion: Cannon skill make it attack around area like self destruct fairy skill but without damage to self, damage enemy around and reveal stealth

Magma skills is just used by bots to farm BP.
Suggestion: Make it will slow movement the enemy who touch the magma with burn effect.

Headshot is one of USELESS Skill cause damage only 2500 so useless specially in HL. UG colo is lv5 BD Soul is lv3 (NO ONE USING)
Suggestion: Make the Damage multiply to Accuracy to Increase the 2500 damage, a cruz slash can reach 40-50k

Venom Arrow dont even know why its there NO ONE USE IT EVER SINCE cause its damage like only 20


I AM NOT ASKING DO EVERYTHING BUT ATLEAST IMPROVE 1 of THEM.
 
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